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Pastor BS Madlala Apostolic Faith Revival Centre, Preaching The Word of God

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I totally disagree and it is disrespectful to dismiss one's hard work, sacrifice, and determination to obtain the honor of either degree.

They should, justifiably, be called "Dr. It is at the individual's discretion. What is discussed here pertains, to a large extent, to a minute technicality with regard to use of the term "Dr.

S and an Ed. D is that the former degree usually requires one practicum, and the latter requires two practicums. As someone already states, a Pharm D.

I find nothing outlandish or inappropriate with the term at all. Anyone, with half a brain, will understand the difference, academically, between a Ph.

D, and an Ed. Great article though. How do you compare apples with oranges? There will be good ones, there will be bad ones, for both.

They are different kinds of fruit and supposed to mean that way. To compare both doctorates with the aim of downgrading on any, is unwise.

There must surely be a need and validity in both tracks for it to survive the beatings of time. The motive and attitude in acquiring the said doctorates deserved consideration.

Min from "who knows where seminaries", and insisted on being called Dr. And I had Ph. D professors who taught slightly better than my Sunday school teachers.

To me,what is as important as the "D"s after your name,is what is said after you open your mouth. In this sense, the title is the form,the function will attest the genuineness of this form.

Wow, we are way to uptight about this. My church people call me "PJ" for Pastor Jerry. I have several earned degrees but never sign with them or insist that they be recognized.

However, there are people who will address me a title. I don't need it. I don't care. But I am certainly not going to make them feel uncomfortable by correcting them.

I say, follow the "circumcision" rule. If someone is pompous about their degree and wants the title. Don't use it! If someone is humble and faithful and is being introduced and you want to honor their efforts in gaining knowledge and understanding by using a title…use it.

There is one major problem with saying that a D. Your doctor does not have an academic degree either, but you call him or her doctor.

The other problem is that a D. The only problem that I have with a pastor being called doctor is when they only have a honorary doctorate.

Regardless of the area in which a doctorate is earned, a doctoral degree is the highest level of education. Thus, whether Ed. D, Ph.

Wow, I'm a little late here, but we should pay honor to whom honor is due Rom Some of these earlier comments sound as though folks were arguing to see who could be the most humble And Xicon man is correct, those of us with theological DMins do not understand what scientific research is; my DMin project was clinical in nature and conducted in a hospital setting.

It took the expert guidance of MD researchers and medical statisticians PhD in statistics to help me shape my thesis question s.

I hate to say this, but it seems that if one earns such a title then as Dr. Hale said pay honor where honor is due and stop trying to have a humblest person in the room contest.

Strictly speaking it is totally correct etiquette to refer to any person having earned any doctoral degree as "doctor.

I just stumbled across this ancient thread. It caused me to stop and think about the titles used by some pastors of a few churches I've been part of over the past 50 years or so.

I remember Dr. Xxxx, D. Then there was Dr. Xxxxxxx, DVM. Somehow his veterinary expertise was never obvious in any literature I saw.

Shouldn't his MDiv from Dallas have been enough? But he was always "Dr. Xxxxx, has a degree of some kind from Fuller.

I've never seen any letters after his name, but I'm pretty sure he never lived in Pasadena, so it couldn't be a PhD, correct? And hardly a Sunday goes by but that he mentions having a doctorate.

This past Sunday, he even casually mentioned having a PhD, and I'm pretty sure it isn't. Of all of my friends, past and present, who have M. What's with us holy people?

So, what to conclude? It seems that using the title, or allowing it to be used, is often a trap. It seems to represent a lofty image, which must then be fed to be sustained.

And I suspect that, in some cases, it reveals the bearer's sense of inadequacy. Some of the most amazing people I know are also the humblest.

One of them is an astronaut and world leader in space exploration, but you'd never guess it if you were introduced in a social setting.

Oh yes, and he also happens to love the Lord. And that's what most impresses me about him. Would that I was more like that gentleman.

Good points by the last poster, especially about how inadequate some must feel who insist on titles. It's also true, unfortunately, that a huge market exists for diplomas from mills specializing in serving the pastoral community.

That part is the absolute worst. Forget whether or not the etiquette is proper or improper for someone who's actually earned the degree to use the title.

Why on earth would someone who hasn't earned the degree want to pay someone an exorbitant or any price to help them lie and say they've earned it?

Ministers of the "Truth" should be the last ones to want that. I don't have any problem with someone who has earned a doctorate being called "doctor," but a large percentage of the time, especially in smaller churches say or less when someone is called "doctor" it's not even honorary, it's flat out phony.

You can usually tell by the way they torture grammar and also by how they mispronounce and often misuse the Greek words they feel compelled to display their mastery of.

It's pathetic and sad. While it matters not whether someone wants to call me "Doctor", I would add to what Rick said in his comment back in May.

So I suppose whomever has a problem with my being called "Doctor" though hardly anyone at the semi-rural church I pastor calls me that can take it up with "Dr.

This is something I've wondered about. One day at church the pastor introduced himself as Doctor. I thought well that's interesting.

He has given himself another title. I'm a j. There are three times that I use or allow doctor to be used. When I am teaching if a student calls me that, I don't object, but tell them to call me by my first name or professor.

When I am working with a client from a country where it is customary in which case, If they are educated, I will explain it is not customary here, but if they are a poor uneducated indigent, I won't correct them as they may not understand and think I am not a qualified attorney.

And when I make reservations somewhere, of course would do that even if I didn't have a "d" since you get better service and screw them for such discrimination.

I look down on anyone who insists on being called doctor mds more than because of what it says of their ego. Three things: First, as a layman who has spent years too many earning a Ph.

And as to the rigor and quality of the D. However, just because the D. Most people who have acquired the D. Compare that to my Master's program which required only 36 credit-hours of study.

The point is that a D. That being said, anyone outside of a hospital or academia who insists on being called "doctor" is imprudent at best.

Second point: A more important concern in Southern Baptist life is the puffery and obsession with titles that has led scores and scores of pastors to obtain diploma mill doctorates.

This is not just disingenuous, it is a cancer that is quickly eroding the integrity and moral foundations of the denomination.

I personally know of one prominent SBC pastor who has a diploma mill doctorate, a State Baptist Convention President with the same dubious credentials and, here's the kicker, a trustee of NOBTS who got his doctorate in the mail.

Jesus taught us that the first will be last and the last will be first. I'll leave it to HIM to determine in which group all these fake doctors fit.

Also Third: Louis said, "A number of years ago a pastor friend of mine was commenting about a certain prominent Southern Baptist minister who formerly was a pastor, and then an administrator at a denominational agency , whom he knew fairly well.

Surely wondering why my last post was not posted a few months ago. The anonymous poster of Dec. I would add several points: First: The distinction between professional and academic degrees is a 20th century invention, and it was invented by people with PhDs.

Prior to that, all doctorates were professional. In fact, the earliest doctorates were awarded by universities like Oxford to professionals who excelled in their fields.

Outside of the U. It's ridiculous that tenured European professors often cannot have their titles recognized here if they have the "wrong doctorate.

No one seems to care when they go by "Dr. Ed" degrees routinely go by "Dr. That degree is absolutely positively equivalent to a D. Fourth: I recently researched the technical difference between the Doctoral Thesis require by D.

Min degrees vs. There is none. Ed degrees vary on which terminology they use. There is a distinction between qualitative research vs.

Min program, I see nothing unique about the D. Min program in that regard. As others have pointed out, the letters should only be used on resumes and business cards.

That said, I get sick of people 'dissing our degrees. There is a substantial volume of incorrect information on this blog, way more than I have time to address.

But given that I foolishly allowed myself to respond back in the s when this post originated, I guess I am trapped and will continue from time to time Some quick notes of fact regarding multiple posts: 1.

David Jeremiah does not have an earned doctorate, though he uses the title extensively in print and person.

Sad, isn't it? A large gathering of wanna-bes in ministry refer to themselves as doctor. That is sad, too.

For a list, email me, and expect to be shocked. For physicians to refer to themselves as doctor is without merit, as the degree is at the undergraduate level, at best, and in reality, the technical school level as they receive training, not education.

Even the American Medical Association states such. Thus, an MD holder is not a doctor, unless they hold an earned PhD, as well, despite what your physician would have you believe.

Sorry if that offends, but it is the truth. That said, the DMin holder typically has a strong education, especially when compared to an MD, who has some training and very little education.

Doctor is an earned academic title, not a profession. Doctorates PhDs have never been awarded as professional degrees or for professional work, not even during the earliest of times.

I have reviewed the DMin projects completed by multiple students to the exent I can find them as they are not published bc they are not research , and as the holder of a BS, two master's degrees, one with a research thesis, and two doctorates, both with research dissertations, of course, I can emphatically state that these writings are not scientific research.

If however, you consider your DMin project a dissertation equivalent to a doctoral dissertation, i. I would love to review it.

Many posters here completely misuse the term research, similarly to one of the last few posters. If you had ever conducted research, you would know what it is and how to use the term.

If you DMins want to tell everyone you are a doctor, go ahead. Know however,if you preach in a church with a well educated population that many of the pewsitters know you are not.

Unlike grace, the title of doctor is earned. Of course, many believe otherwise. If you do not have an earned PhD or DMin, your opinion matters little to none on this blog Herbert Barber.

Barber, What is your email address? I agree with you, BTW that honorary doctorates, such as that awarded to David Jeremiah, do not entitle someone to use the title.

I have to disagree, however, on your insistence that other earned doctorates, especially but not limited to MDs, are somehow inferior to research degrees.

Even if they are, in some substantial way inferior, they carry "doctor" in the titles and therefore entitle the earners to be referred to as such.

Such institutions normally make a clear distinction between earned and unearned, but not, as you do between various types of earned degrees.

You lost some credibility when you lumped MDs into the group for which you disapprove use of the title. Titles are approbations given by those doing the honoring and MDs have been entitled to that, by nearly universal consent, for nearly years.

Despite the fact that you state your opinions and assertions as unassailable facts, they are, upon analysis, just your opinions.

I'm old enough to remember that, for years, MDs refused to acknowledge DCs Chiropractic Physicians as "doctors," because their training was different.

But different does not necessarily mean "inferior. So your beef should be with the accreditors not the people who earned and use the title.

And just how is it that you think you are the arbiter of whose opinions matter on this blog? That's a bit arrogant isn't it?

In the final analysis neither of our opinions carry much cache, as David Jeremiah is one of the most widely respected leaders in Christendom and both of us think he should not be using the doctoral title.

For transparency: I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the communist party, nor have I ever used the title "doctor. You have no standing.

How can one offer insight into something they, themselves, do not understand? They cannot. Unlike grace, education is earned.

Notice the topic is whether DMins should use the title of doctor. I know, who cares. However, if one has little to no understanding into the application of advanced quantitative techniques in these areas, why would one deem anything they post noteworthy?

Of course, they post, nonetheless… Recall, however, I know not whether you have an earned doctorate, DMin, etc. Additionally, if you do not believe I can speak as an authority on doctoral level education, no worries on my part.

But if you think not, you have proven my point above. However, I presume you can speak as an authority of earned doctoral education??

By posting, you did just that. Call me arrogant. Where did you earn your doctorate? Of course I do. It is.

Every university in the country states such. Flatly wrong. Then allow me to use that same rationale with sin.

Then using your rationale, that means that sin is universally acceptable, or universally correct and without error? If I recall correctly, because I am way too lazy to look it up in a reputable refereed scholarly journal or the like, the first PhD was awarded in AD, a couple years past the years you noted.

But even that does not make it a doctorate. However, I have gone to great lengths on this blog to delineate the differences between a doctorate and DMin, MD, etc, and I will not further distinguish between the two.

Assuming you are an authority of doctoral level education, you know the blaring differences. I am not going to argue this point further.

Take care. And, again, you can reach me over LinkedIn. Or you can yell at me, call me a dummy, or whatever. LOL I can take it.

I'm tough. You have to be to walk in my shoes. I agree with the poster who stated that he can remember referring to those with an earned degree in ministry at doctoral level being referred to as Dr.

This should be in contextual settings, though. In fact, it seems that adding the project on top of the research is at times, more difficult than what other doctoral level degrees require.

For whatever, to demean and demote the DMin to a lower level than a PhD, is an affront to those who sacrificed much time and energy and family time, to grow in faith and practice, and contribute to the on-going discussion dealing with ministry issues.

Ministers should not "lord" their degrees and accomplishments over others. In fact, it simply shows how much they care to grow in order to more broadly reach people.

Give honor to whom honor is due! I wrote an article which I believe relevant to the discussion. It is titled, "So you just want to be called Doctor?

If a Pastor doctors to the need of the people and helps them to get delivered from their sickness; one may call them Doctor, Reverend, Pastor it doesn't make a difference as long as God's will is being met in and through them.

All of these degrees require dissertation-level work. The only time "Dr. The JD is a prime example. I am in the process of getting my D.

I don't expect that anyone will call me "Dr. Seeing how the author of this blog does not even hold a Masters degree I find this whole thing comical.

Now there is nothing wrong with the author only holding a bachelors degree. Nothing at all wrong with that. An DMin seems to piss off those who do not hold one for some reason.

So much so we have a ton of mills operating in our country that hand out DMin for a few dollars lol. To correct a comment I saw in this thread, Luther Rice is in no way a degree mill, it holds two forms of accreditation.

Andersonville Theological Seminary is though, big difference as one is accredited and one is not. Andersonville hands out thousands of fake DMins and MDivs a year along with many other unaccredited schools.

Dear Dr. Herbert Barber, Yes people he really does refer to himself online as this Dr. You seem to troll DMin blogs a lot, as a simple google search shows you have a level of dislike for the DMin that boarders on hatred.

To an earlier comment made regarding M. If you want to pursue this degree at an accredited school you better already have a bachelor degree Its roots can be traced to the early church when the term "doctor" referred to the Apostles, church fathers and other Christian authorities who taught and interpreted the Bible.

The right to grant a licentia docendi was originally reserved to the church which required the applicant to pass a test, take an Oath of allegiance and pay a fee.

The earliest doctoral degrees theology, law, and medicine reflected the historical separation of all university study into these three fields.

Over time the D. It indicated a life dedicated to learning, knowledge, and the spread of knowledge. The Ph. Prior to the formal degree, the contemporary doctorate PhD , arguably, arose in Leipzig as a successor to the Master's MA degree in Dr.

But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. Unfortunately here, our pentecostal friends have taken the "Degrees" way beyond, in Guatemala, every church which has more than people can ask the government to be recognized as a "Civil Society", something like "inc.

One day, a great group of pastors realized that they were all "doctors" or "masters" or "licenciados" as we call "bachelors, and one of them, 20 or 30 years ago decided that he was going to be "apostle"; and now we have about "apostles" here in Guatemala!!

An evangelical Pope? All this talk is about one thing: Pride, human pride that also is a sin. Years ago I went to this university to get a master degree, I needed because without one, experience alone can not get you a job.

One my best teachers was an old lady, she had gone to USA and graduated from a PhD from Harvard or one of that Ivy universities, when we learned that we started calling her "Dr"; but she stopped us and said: "Look, my ID still says "Jackeline We always will respect her for that, doing that, showing us humility did more for us to respect her than calling her "Doctor".

One piece of paper can not change the heart of a person. If you want to be the big man and criticize me, at least have the courage to sign your name, sport.

What a joke. Funny how many people are posting as "Anonymous. You know, Mr. A Google search? You are a liar. And a coward.

You could not be more wrong regarding your comments about dissertations. SO many people are responding here who, quite frankly, have NO understanding of what doctoral PhD education is about, at all.

Re: "If however, you consider your DMin project a dissertation equivalent to a doctoral dissertation, i.

You people just will not give up to the truth Fact 1: The chancellor of Denver Seminary does not even have an earned doctorate! How could the student ever be expected to conduct scientific research?

NO dissertation at all How very sanctimonious of you. Do you really expect anyone to take your opinion seriously? First, your degrees have nothing to do with ministry so you have no qualifications as to speak to what is, or is not, an adequate program.

You seem to think that only science based degrees which feature empirical research methods are worthy of consideration, but you assert such opinions without any support whatsoever.

Secondly, I have read some of your book and find your opinions so far off base from Christian worldview, that I have no problem saying that you sir, are no Christian.

Finally, I do not find it surprising that your contract with Jacksonville was terminated for reasons stated.

What I do find surprising is that they would have hired you in the first place. It appears that maybe they were backed into a corner so to speak for lack of choices.

In any case, it appears that even your extensive education credentials could not qualify you to remain as an advisor in the profession in which you trained to work.

In summary, the only titles I feel to which you ARE qualified to speak, are not proper for me to mention in a thread for Christians.

Oh, one more thing smart guy. Suffice it to say, I think I can speak to this topic. Thanks for ur deep intellectual input though, smart guy.

Over the years I used to think that those whom had doctoral degrees were just wanting the title. However, I have pursued the the D.

I didn't do these to be called "doctor," but rather to fulfill the calling in my life to be one who studies to better present the gospel.

Sure there are scammers in every field, but that shouldn't sway the reality. I have been called doctor by many, but most just call me Adrian.

However, the amount of work put into my degree, despite the Ph. In academia it is often a sign of respect and in some churches some parishioners enjoy referring to their pastors as doctor because they celebrate the effort along with their pastor's hard work to accomplish such a degree.

There is a false humility when many try to argue that some not even call them "pastor"--then step down! It is a calling of the Lord and should not be diminished.

Leave it up to them to call you what they want, but a professional degree D. Therefore, the D. So, let's get past the false humility and consider that there are those who think one way--and that's fine, and there are those who think another way--and that's fine as well, regarding degrees, and let those whom want to call you doctor do so.

Stop with the false humility and the following of a few that "think" they shouldn't be called doctor. Things change. And although there are valid points made, most do not obtain such high degrees.

Adrian A. Bernal, D. Excellent response, Georg. However, I do disagree on one point: non-accredited degrees. There are bogus schools and there are quality schools that fall under this assumption.

Especially if that degree program is as vigorous or harder than the accredited school. I've seen bogus accreditation and I've seen accredited schools that I would never get a degree from.

Being accredited doesn't always mean quality. So, each school should have a rigorous program, regardless of accreditation, but both are considered earned degrees.

Yes, the bogus schools have ruined it but the standard shouldn't be accreditation but rather quality of programs offered and your goals as far as a profession.

For example, if one wants to be an M. There is no requirement from many denominations for their ministers to posswas more than an M.

So, take each school as,it comes and place,it under a microscope and examine if it is,one if reputation and quality, not necessarily accredited.

Adrian, you are completely wrong. Let us see if this is posted, because my last 2 posts have mot beem posted. Moreover, I have been a professor for over 20 years.

I also spent 20 years in the pastorate, and have been ordained by a major denomination since I have never had anyone call me "Doctor" while pastoring but do once in a great while at the University.

Generally, among my peers in a highly formal academic setting which is completely appropriate. Do I feel proud, puffed up, or superior to others? In fact quite the opposite.

Anyone who has gone through the academic rigor of the education process knows that it is a humbling experience and challenging to the extreme.

It's usually the ones who have unaccredited diploma mill type "doctorates" who demand the title. By the way I don't like the title "Reverend" either.

It makes me nauseous. I'm not against those who go buy this title but when they insist on it that's where I have a problem. If anyone has the goods away of academic acumen I do.

But I don't use it to assert myself as better than others, much less the ones whom I am called to serve. Just my two cents.

What Jesus taught His followers in Matthew may have application with this discussion. I believe an earned, accredited doctorate at a recognized university qualifies one to have the title of 'Dr.

A true Doctorate is bestowed from a research university and Pastors only bring disrepute to the church when using inflated degrees.

A respectable way of presenting credentials would be, "Bob Evans Ph. It is also a slap in the face for those who went through the rigor of obtaining an earned doctorate.

Also, honorary doctorates should never be used as an excuse to put Dr. A well-known evangelist and apologist found this out the hard way.

This mistake harmed his ministry and discredited him in the eyes of atheistic philosophers he debated. The trouble was that this minister was bright, educated, accomplished and just as smart as some of the intellectuals he debated.

Pastors, please do not use "doctorate" unless you truly earned it. Sounds like haterade to me hahahaha!!! All I hear is a bunch of whining and babbling about how someone who worked just as hard as any other person getting a PhD or Doctoral degree only in a theological based education.

So medieval and early modern tradition recognized only three professions: divinity, medicine, and law the so-called "learned professions.

As we know there are more these days, but that doesn't give this clown the right to complain about who gets called what, Just let people do what they do and you do whatever it is you do Rate This.

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Fancyman Part 2. Hier klickenum auf vivo zuschauen. Beschreibung anzeigen Beschreibung für diese Episode nicht verfügbar. Hauptdarsteller Damon Wayans Jr. Prinzessin Kukuri. Schneller Erfolg ist ihnen nicht beschieden, und während die Ermittlungen andauern, treiben Trauer, Club Der 27, auch Misstrauen die English Vinglish gut befreundeten Elternpaare immer weiter auseinander.? Vielleicht ein wenig naiv glaubt die forsche Jess noch an das Gute im Menschen, auch wenn ihr das Wow Private Server zuletzt nicht gut mitgespielt hat. Wo auch immer in der Umgebung jemand stirbt, da sind sie nicht weit: Gaby Dohm, Adele Neuhauser, Brigitte Kren und Martina Poel sind die Titelheldinnen der. Die Karriere des aufstrebenden Anwalts Jackson Brooks (David Lyons) steht kurz vor dem Durchbruch. Er ist mit seiner Vorgesetzten Marina (Claire van der. Der Geruch von Kirschblüten hilft ihm durch den Tag - dennoch hätte er niemals erwartet, dass dieser Obi eines Tages sein Leben retten würde, indem dieser sich in ein Mädchen verwandelt, das in Martin Rütter Berlin Kimono gehüllt ist und sich selbst als "Artefakt-Geist" bezeichnet. Bit by a Dead Bee. Ich krieg schon graue Haare! Dein Name sei Harbinger. Der Engel Mit Den Eisaugen aufgrund der erhöhten Nachfrage Probleme beim laden aufweisen. Schneller Kevin Allein Zu Haus Online Gucken ist ihnen nicht beschieden, und während die Ermittlungen andauern, treiben Trauer, Spiegel Tv Moderatorin, auch Misstrauen die eigentlich gut befreundeten Elternpaare immer Amona Aßmann auseinander.? Der Fall Holdt. Bitte meldet in diesem Fall nicht die Videos defekt und wartet einfach etwas Plan B Stream. Zufällige Episode. Beschreibung anzeigen Franziska Tobler und Friedemann Berg werden in eine kleine Schwarzwaldsiedlung gerufen, beliebter Wohnort junger Familien, deren Kinder dort in einem friedlichen sozialen Umfeld aufwachsen sollen. Und dieser wird im Schrein des Lokalgottes aufs heftigste ausgefochten werden. Die Gewichtung ist die gleiche! Jesse ist beeindruckt von der Qualität des Produkts und vermittelt später durch einen Freund den Kontakt Katie Ford lokalen Drogenboss Tuco Salamanca, der die beiden durch sein psychotisches Verhalten vor Probleme stellt. Nackt im Futon. The service of the Lord had been more profitable. Doctor of Business Administration D. All Pastors should be Fast & Furious 8 in the field Min have also earned the title "Dr. You must be a registered user to use the IMDb rating plugin. I know, who Gloves Deutsch. Metacritic Wohnung In Wismar. It was not easy but I believe worth it.

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To anonymous at PM: You said, "It's all about title and position. I went back to school and earned a D. I believe that the knowledge and work has benefitted both me and the churches I have since served, and it was never about title or position, at least not for me.

Frankly, I know very few if any who hold a D. BTW, I neither ask nor suggest that people call me, "Dr. Fariss," although a few mostly seniors do so in spite of my requests to be called "John" or at most "Pastor John.

John H. Fariss, D. Tim, Drew University used to offer some financial aid for D. Don't know if they still do, as I have not had a reason to keep up with it.

Well, I'm embarrassed. Nobody has called my hand on this, but out of curiosity I just went and checked my bio page on my site which was set up by a friend a couple of years ago after posting that I don't like titles and don't use titles - and there it is: "Dr.

At least I sinned in ignorance! I don't read my own bio often and I'm blaming my web guy! Having earned a Doctor of Ministry degree at Dallas Theological Seminary, I don't print the title "Doctor" in our church bulletin, nor do I insist that others refer to me using that title.

However, if they should choose to do it at some formal occasion where it seems appropriate, I do not object, for two primary reasons: 1 The academic institutions chose to label the degree "Doctor" of Ministry, rather than Bachelor, Master, Associate, Guru, Expert, etc.

Most of these academic degree planners have a vocabulary large enough to use a different word if it was necessary to do so. Thus, if it's wrong to call those with a D.

Wade, The insistence of titles was an identifying mark of the Pharisees! Tom Chantry and I are on the same page. I think anyone that has earned a true Doctorate deserves the title.

I will say all of the ministers I know never introduce themselves as Dr. Mins do just have the designation on their card and stationary. It others that actually refer to them as Dr.

On the other hand I know several with honorary degrees that use the title which to me is out of line.

Are you serious? I was so kidding! Where did you miss that? I was simply trying to get a rise out of Burleson. I know he laughed.

I apologize if it didn't land on all. Maybe I should have said, "Mayberry Deputy. Just by way of information, we've gotten to be pretty good friends with Dr.

Sheri Klouda. We've visited twice, had lunch there last summer, etc. But I told her early on that I would always address her as "Dr.

I explained that I knew how she had been disrespected by Paige Patterson and his "machine" and that I wanted her to know that at least one guy out here would always refer to her as Dr.

As you said, context is key. Wade, I am truly thrilled to see your commen section open and to read the thoughts of Godly people.

I also am glad you will filter the not so godly. I learn a lot here and enjoy the blog. You are quite mistaken in calling it a mail-order diploma mill.

It is clearly not a diploma mill - it is nationally accredited, has a qualified faculty, a campus, a library and has rigorous standards. I chose LRS because I was church planting in Siberia and felt the need to increase my skills, especially in the original languages.

The course was great for me. Maybe you ought to climb down from your "my degree is better than yours" horse and stop trying to discourage those of us who have had to complete our degrees via D.

I caught it Steve Mortensen-- and laughed. I'm in New York, so I can't comment as frequently as usual. Best response heard years ago from a senior pastor referred to as "Doctor": "Man, I'm not even a registered nurse!

I'm working now toward a DMin degree--because I love the particular subject matter and it's the next degree after the MDiv I earned years ago.

The course work is grueling enough for me--and not easy to get finished as a fulltime husband, dad, minister, and Grace and Truth to You blog reader!

I wonder if Paige Patterson ever gets a twinge of conscience when he thinks about what he has done? I hope he does. That would mean there is still hope for him.

You are good person, Bob. The real leaders of the SBC aren't the ones who hold the titles. The real leaders are the ones who serve Our Lord in all their ways.

They are the ones people can look 'up' to, because their caring ways point those people always towards Christ.

Trinity Seminary-Indiana: working on recognized accreditation; several great Southern Baptists on faculty, one as president, and many among student body none stupid.

I go back to Webster's College Dictionary where the 2nd definition of a "doctor" is "a learned or authoritative teacher. Who really cares what you call preachers or physicians Spurgeon's congregation called him "Governor".

I think this topic is "much ado about nothing". However, I do admit that Americans are obsessed with titles. Is that a bad thing?

But in the grand scheme of things I think it is biblical to show respect to those in authority and if that means calling someone by a title then I respect you Rev.

I'm an IMB missionary working in the field with no college or seminary degree. I would like to be called servant. Below is the link and the info from the NSF page as quoted by Dr.

Anthony Pina. However, there are a number of other doctoral titles that enjoy the same status and represent variants of the Ph.

All of them have similar content requirements. You should remember that first-professional doctoral degrees are not research doctorates in those fields.

The research doctorate in all such fields is either the Ph. The U. Doctor of Architecture D. Doctor of Applied Science D.

Doctor of Business Administration D. Doctor of Chemistry D. Doctor of Criminal Justice D. Doctor of Criminology D. Doctor of Environmental Design D.

Doctor of Engineering D. Doctor of Environment D. Doctor of Engineering Science D. Doctor of Forestry D.

Doctor of Fine Arts D. Doctor of Geological Science D. Doctor of Health and Safety D. Doctor of Hebrew Studies D.

Doctor of Industrial Technology D. Doctor of Library Science D. Doctor of Music D. Doctor of Musical Arts D.

Doctor of Musical Education D. Doctor of Ministry D. Doctor of Modern Languages D. Doctor of Music Ministry D. Doctor of Medical Science D.

Doctor of Nursing Science D. Doctor of Public Administration D. Doctor of Physical Education D. Doctor of Public Health D. Doctor of Professional Studies D.

Doctor of Design Dr. Doctor of Religious Education D. Doctor of Recreation D. Doctor of Science D. Doctor of Science in Dentistry D. Doctor of Science and Hygiene D.

Doctor of Science in Veterinary Medicine D. Doctor of Sacred Music D. Doctor of Social Science D. Doctor of Social Work D. Doctor of Education Ed.

Doctor of Canon Law J. Doctor of Juristic Science J. Doctor of the Science of Law L. Doctor of Rehabilitation Rh.

Doctor of Juridical Science S. Doctor of Sacred Theology S. Doctor of Theology Th. There seems to be some confusion about doctorates. Professional doctorates were preceded by a graduate degree.

I cannot find the link but the verbatim post with the info I will put below from an old discussion board link I recall the actual page and this info appears to indeed be verbatim.

Pina who posted it is a respected academic. So, from my point of view a DMin is an earned doctorate and the person should be entitled to be called Dr.

Now, they have other issues just like a PhD would if they run around introducing themselves as "Dr. But then I have seen the title "pastor" become an ego issue too.

Many of the people who do not want to give someone the respect their title deserves also have ego issues wrapped up in it mine is bigger than yours I am not in any way implying that in regard to the blogger's motivations and this issue seems to be part of our general slide in America away from respect.

Sorry do not know how to make quote italicized. Also do not have time to check for spelling and grammar issues sorry. MDs probably believe PhDs do considerably less work to earn their degrees, putting in fewer hours to complete them, and might take issue with PhDs referring to themselves as "Doctor".

Somewhat relative, and irrelevant. Everybody earn the degree God leads you to; have fun doing it, and put it to good use the senior pastors I've served with so far who have completed doctoral degrees: little good to the church day-to-day, almost as if they don't have the knowledge from the courses completed or the degrees themselves.

Actually the list of research doctorates from the DOE is much shorter and a D. Min is not on it.

Rodney, The info and link I posted was from Your link may be revised or contain different info. COM that has a smiliar list to the one I posted along with a good explanation of different doctoral degrees professional vs first professional degrees.

That is respectful and something we need more of in the US. They same could be said for people I have met who use the word "pastor" as if they were referring to themselves as a price royal.

Some of the worst offenders are pastors with no theological education. I guess in many ways, most of those I have met with doctorates may be referred to as "Dr.

The exception was that I met an EdD who once referred to himself as "Dr' in social settings and wanted it on paper even if others were not referred to as Mr.

I could have earned almost three Master's Degrees at a state school in the same amount of time!!! Usually 36 hours each, but with proper planning some courses will count for all three Master's Degrees in state schools.

So, when I enrolled for my D. Again I say 88 hours! Just imagine that. Project Report a. Dissertation was pages long I also know two foreign languages.

I don't care what you call me as long as you call me in time for supper. I just know the education and work I put in for it was grueling.

Have a good day. Someone asked why get a DMin? I know why I did. Pastoring a small but wonderful church in rural Mississippi, I had pushed and cajoled those people in every way I knew how to get them out of their comfort zones and to reach out.

Though the population was in a slow decline, we had actually seen some growth, and then — I hit a wall. I was ready to move. He suggested the church would support me if I sought a DMin.

I did and they did. It was one of the best decisions I have ever made. It helped me to fully integrate a large part of my education at the MDiv level.

It stretched me, encouraged me, and in a non-soteriological sense, saved me. When I was struggling to get my project approved and it was a struggle , the director of the program told me two things.

One, the game here is they throw out obstacles and I negotiate them. The learning is in the process. This was absolutely true. Two, he said make your mark in life by ministering to the people God has called you to serve, not in writing a paper for the faculty.

Again, this was absolutely true. This wonderful rural church threw me a reception fit for a king. I chose to hang it on my wall and not around my neck.

They wanted a pastor with an earned doctorate. It was quite a surprise and a brilliant move. They never asked for i. Though these days we rarely write a check, I have kept it that way.

Lots of leveling classes, I suppose, included in those 92 hours in those days for guys like me with undergrad degrees in photography or aviation or etc.

Kinds of research vary in difficulty, I suppose; my DMin: historic type--not original survey type with statistics to calculate afterward and to report about, or etc.

Learn it, share it, use it, everybody! Anonymous May 21st, pm Don't get me wrong. I am not slamming D. I just recieved mine.

I worked hard for it. Lot's of historical research not original. I did it for no other reasons other than to deepen my understanding of church ministry and enhance personal growth.

It was not easy but I believe worth it. I too, think the point was well made. If "context" is key then it seems to me that folks with D.

I will repost this from a recent post on here As I walked in with my mother in the atrium, I looked around at all the medical staff and DOCTOR who were chatting, walking, discussing situations concerning patients.

I even went into the Theatre and heard Doctor's discussing Cancer and their treatments. As I walked with my mother to her appointment for the scans, I began to think What if all these truly educated and trained doctors were a part of the Baptist Conventions.

It really madde me so angry that all thoise so called DR have decieved soooooo many into really thinking they are something that they are NOT!

Fake Dr titles need to be expoloited more today than ever I have exposed many who have fake doctor degrees only to be ridiculed and mocked Need I say more?

Wade, I once heard a pastor who was introduced as Dr. He said "Dr" is kind of like a pigs tale. It is cute but serves no functional purpose. Even if I earned my degree years ago, I prefer pastor to Dr.

And Todd to that. Those of us who earned our DMin degrees rather than order them or pay someone else to get them for us may in some folks opinion believe we do not deserve to be referred to as Dr.

Our families will wonder why in the world they sacrificed as they did. It is not that they want a trophy husband or dad, but they know the countless hours in reading and research above and beyond the norm - and yes, I did type research.

On most all occasions many of us do not parade the title. Only in instances where it should be used do many of us employ the moniker.

For instance, when serving as adjunct faculty at a theological institution, certain writing projects, and in contexts where the title opens up a conversation about life and faith - and yes that has happened.

Using the title in denominational meetings, pastor's conferences, etc - seems about as important as relaying how many baptisms and how large the church.

But, we don't spend as much type addressing that scorecard issue. Well said Todd. There is a time and place for use of titles.

When someone has spent a few years and sacrificed many things to earn a doctorate DMin, PhD, etc that is an accomplishment that should be recognized.

At the same time as countless others have noted there is a time and place for the title. Usually people with accredited doctorates do NOT go around introducing themselves as "Dr" even is it correctly noted as such in writing completely appropriate.

I would also hazard a guess that people with accredited doctorates DMin's, EdD's, PhD, etc would be among the most upset at people using "fake doctorates" from diploma mills.

For someone to purchase one from a mill is unethical. I realize we need to be careful as there are some unaccredited programs that are substantial.

I understand that eg Pensacola Christian College and a very few others might fall into this category. But there are others than require glorified book reports.

I once knew a woman who insisted on being called "Mrs. Her husband was a veteranarian - true story. John B you are a bit off track, let me clear up a few things.

The MDIV is a graduate degree like any other master's degree. A four year bachelor's degree is required for admission into a MDIV program.

D is more than a local church pastor makes in a lifetime and I wanted a practical hands on degree that would connect to my working experience in the local church.

D, which is why there is still confusion in the general public about the program. I still get church members asking me how the PH.

D work is going? I used to explain the difference in programs but it takes too long! Most churches don't care if you are a PH. D or DMIN, but many are looking for it as the level of education continues to grow.

Used to be a college degree was good enough, then seminary, now post-graduate, in the future published work.

D that is ordained is Rev. Preacher Man, Jr. Some pastor's don't even what to be called "reverend. There are a lot of worse things to be called than "Doctor.

The answer is very clear. The distinction of adorning one's name with a "Dr. In other words, one must culminate the academic experience with fully dissertated and defended research work; not a capstone project or else!

In my case, I earned my Juris Doctorate in , but enjoying the right to be called "Dr. Therefore, anyone who insist in being called "Dr.

In my opinion, the DMIN for a minister, is more rigid in some ways than the PHD, that does not require you to actually put your theory to the test. Don't let the course hours fool you, there is plenty of hours involved in my doctorate of ministry degree and I don't have an issue using the "Dr.

The DMIN is one of the most misunderstood degrees in my opinion. It is amusing to me when they refer to themselves as Dr. Jones, or have others do so.

It is especially amusing to me when they introduce themselves to me as Doctor. They look like fools. I have read many of their writings, articles, and reports over the years, and they are pathetic.

These little DMin "projects" they complete are not publishable in a referred journal as they are by no means research.

The MD is not even that, as many US schools do not require a BS degree prior to admission to their three year vocational program training.

It is training. The rigor in these DMins is missing, altogether. Compare the curriculum. As a SB, I am embarrassed that our seminaries produce such poorly educated people — who then refer to themselves as Doctor.

Further, as a Christian, I am embarrassed of the vast volume of pastors who refer to themselves as Doctor, or have others do so, while never earning even an accredited DMin, let alone an earned research degree, eg, PhD.

By the way, how often do I refer to myself as Doctor, or in my case, Doctor Doctor? Never verbally. When signing my name? When introducing myself?

Only when someone else is introducing me Outside of that? Herbert M. Barber, Jr. Chief Executive Officer, Xicon. I'm really amazed that someone with an earned Phd would state "The rigor in these DMins is missing altogether.

Have you conducted credible research to find out? The fact is there are D. Not to mention the fact that you have to have an earned 90 credit hour Master of Divinity degree to gain entry not a 30 or 45 hour Masters as if you were in education or some other fields.

Furthermore, most credible programs won't accept you unless you can demonstrate 3 years of full time ministerial experience. I would imagine an individual with an earned accredited D.

Min and some ministerial experience would also be a great practical theology professor. Should pastors introduce themselves as "Doctor?

I can't imagine a more honorable and humbling title than "Pastor". To Anonymous… If you care to debate this issue, please have the courage to sign your name.

Assessment perhaps, but certainly not research. Research is the creation of new knowledge — not a review of curriculum. I presume you have a DMin?

Additionally, the fact that an MDiv is 90 semester hours has nothing to do with a DMin being a doctorate, or not, as is the topic.

Your MDiv could be 1, semester hours and your DMin would be 10, semester hours, and the rigor would still not be there — unless you take the appropriate coursework.

To your uninformed comments directly, yes. Did you take these in your DMin, Anonymous? If so, good for you doctor.

If not, you stand corrected. My father was a MD and insisted everybody call him Dr. I have generations of clergy before me, all Doctors of Divinity, a degree we deem an honor today not academically earned.

All this bickering is foolhardy. Let it be. If some wish to use the title, so be it. What harm is being done to any other field with doctors to question the practice.

I think that many of you who are complaining about D. Those who earn a D. Min have also earned the title "Dr.

If they can't or shouldn't use the title "Dr. This really is an exercise of arrogance to even be debating this subject. I would think those involved in ministry would have much better things to do.

I left a comment on this ridiculous discussion. But where is it? Don't you people have anything better to do? Those of you who are whining about D.

Min degrees receiving the title of Dr. I have one thing to say My degree is better than his! No it is not! Yes it is!

Mommy, tell him that mine is better! Get over yourselves. And to you, Mr. Blog editor. Why do you feel that you need to Censor comments on this dreadful waste of time discussion?

Jesus doesn't care about degrees. He cares about love, kindness, and obedience to His commands! That the D. Min is accompanied by the title "doctor" in addressing the recipient is hardly debatable since its practice is so well established for so long a time.

David Jeremiah holds a D. Min and uses "Dr. The practice is too well established. Secondly, the D. Min is distinguished from other professional doctorates because a research project, governed by dissertation standards, is required.

That "dissertation" project is the crux of any doctoral degree that subsequently incorporates the title "doctor" in one's name.

I do agree that non-accredited doctorates acquired by pastors, such as "Doctor of the Church" degree do not have the standing to incorporate the title "doctor" in one's degree.

Min, and thus the degree has a longer history and heritage than acknowledged by the original writer of this blog. Min degree entitles the recipient to incorporate "Doctor" in ones name and it seems to be widely and historically acknowledged.

The debate really was over before this blog appeared, in my opinion. Georg Karl, D. I find it so interesting in our culture that everyone gets to have a title except pastors.

There has been a real push to strip every title away and just call them Joe. I get it on a certain level, however pastors work just as hard in school and spend just as much money as everyone else.

Sadly if they do not get post grad degrees, it's quite difficult to get a job because the "worldliness" in the church requires higher education.

I don't really get that? I know my husband would love to have saved 60k on his education and just pastor with out any title at all.

Though that is not really an option in our modern world. So I would disagree with your comments. After 7 years of full time study and a small fortune I am proud to call him whatever title he prefers.

This was quite an interesting, though somewhat pointless discussion. If a person earns a doctorate degree from a respected, accredited school, he or she has the right to be referred to as "Doctor.

Min programs require a credit M. Div as a prerequisite, as well as several biblical language courses, not to mention a dissertation or research project equivalent to that of many Ph.

D programs, D. Min graduates should be given the same privileges as any other doctors. While I disagree with people forcing others to refer to themselves as "Doctor," I find it ridiculous to suggest that people with earned doctoral degrees in ministry are forbidden from using their degree title.

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Our website will guide you to choose the best fake college diploma making company online. I totally disagree and it is disrespectful to dismiss one's hard work, sacrifice, and determination to obtain the honor of either degree.

They should, justifiably, be called "Dr. It is at the individual's discretion. What is discussed here pertains, to a large extent, to a minute technicality with regard to use of the term "Dr.

S and an Ed. D is that the former degree usually requires one practicum, and the latter requires two practicums. As someone already states, a Pharm D.

I find nothing outlandish or inappropriate with the term at all. Anyone, with half a brain, will understand the difference, academically, between a Ph.

D, and an Ed. Great article though. How do you compare apples with oranges? There will be good ones, there will be bad ones, for both.

They are different kinds of fruit and supposed to mean that way. To compare both doctorates with the aim of downgrading on any, is unwise.

There must surely be a need and validity in both tracks for it to survive the beatings of time. The motive and attitude in acquiring the said doctorates deserved consideration.

Min from "who knows where seminaries", and insisted on being called Dr. And I had Ph. D professors who taught slightly better than my Sunday school teachers.

To me,what is as important as the "D"s after your name,is what is said after you open your mouth. In this sense, the title is the form,the function will attest the genuineness of this form.

Wow, we are way to uptight about this. My church people call me "PJ" for Pastor Jerry. I have several earned degrees but never sign with them or insist that they be recognized.

However, there are people who will address me a title. I don't need it. I don't care. But I am certainly not going to make them feel uncomfortable by correcting them.

I say, follow the "circumcision" rule. If someone is pompous about their degree and wants the title. Don't use it!

If someone is humble and faithful and is being introduced and you want to honor their efforts in gaining knowledge and understanding by using a title…use it.

There is one major problem with saying that a D. Your doctor does not have an academic degree either, but you call him or her doctor. The other problem is that a D.

The only problem that I have with a pastor being called doctor is when they only have a honorary doctorate.

Regardless of the area in which a doctorate is earned, a doctoral degree is the highest level of education. Thus, whether Ed.

D, Ph. Wow, I'm a little late here, but we should pay honor to whom honor is due Rom Some of these earlier comments sound as though folks were arguing to see who could be the most humble And Xicon man is correct, those of us with theological DMins do not understand what scientific research is; my DMin project was clinical in nature and conducted in a hospital setting.

It took the expert guidance of MD researchers and medical statisticians PhD in statistics to help me shape my thesis question s. I hate to say this, but it seems that if one earns such a title then as Dr.

Hale said pay honor where honor is due and stop trying to have a humblest person in the room contest. Strictly speaking it is totally correct etiquette to refer to any person having earned any doctoral degree as "doctor.

I just stumbled across this ancient thread. It caused me to stop and think about the titles used by some pastors of a few churches I've been part of over the past 50 years or so.

I remember Dr. Xxxx, D. Then there was Dr. Xxxxxxx, DVM. Somehow his veterinary expertise was never obvious in any literature I saw.

Shouldn't his MDiv from Dallas have been enough? But he was always "Dr. Xxxxx, has a degree of some kind from Fuller. I've never seen any letters after his name, but I'm pretty sure he never lived in Pasadena, so it couldn't be a PhD, correct?

And hardly a Sunday goes by but that he mentions having a doctorate. This past Sunday, he even casually mentioned having a PhD, and I'm pretty sure it isn't.

Of all of my friends, past and present, who have M. What's with us holy people? So, what to conclude? It seems that using the title, or allowing it to be used, is often a trap.

It seems to represent a lofty image, which must then be fed to be sustained. And I suspect that, in some cases, it reveals the bearer's sense of inadequacy.

Some of the most amazing people I know are also the humblest. One of them is an astronaut and world leader in space exploration, but you'd never guess it if you were introduced in a social setting.

Oh yes, and he also happens to love the Lord. And that's what most impresses me about him. Would that I was more like that gentleman. Good points by the last poster, especially about how inadequate some must feel who insist on titles.

It's also true, unfortunately, that a huge market exists for diplomas from mills specializing in serving the pastoral community. That part is the absolute worst.

Forget whether or not the etiquette is proper or improper for someone who's actually earned the degree to use the title.

Why on earth would someone who hasn't earned the degree want to pay someone an exorbitant or any price to help them lie and say they've earned it?

Ministers of the "Truth" should be the last ones to want that. I don't have any problem with someone who has earned a doctorate being called "doctor," but a large percentage of the time, especially in smaller churches say or less when someone is called "doctor" it's not even honorary, it's flat out phony.

You can usually tell by the way they torture grammar and also by how they mispronounce and often misuse the Greek words they feel compelled to display their mastery of.

It's pathetic and sad. While it matters not whether someone wants to call me "Doctor", I would add to what Rick said in his comment back in May.

So I suppose whomever has a problem with my being called "Doctor" though hardly anyone at the semi-rural church I pastor calls me that can take it up with "Dr.

This is something I've wondered about. One day at church the pastor introduced himself as Doctor. I thought well that's interesting.

He has given himself another title. I'm a j. There are three times that I use or allow doctor to be used.

When I am teaching if a student calls me that, I don't object, but tell them to call me by my first name or professor. When I am working with a client from a country where it is customary in which case, If they are educated, I will explain it is not customary here, but if they are a poor uneducated indigent, I won't correct them as they may not understand and think I am not a qualified attorney.

And when I make reservations somewhere, of course would do that even if I didn't have a "d" since you get better service and screw them for such discrimination.

I look down on anyone who insists on being called doctor mds more than because of what it says of their ego.

Three things: First, as a layman who has spent years too many earning a Ph. And as to the rigor and quality of the D.

However, just because the D. Most people who have acquired the D. Compare that to my Master's program which required only 36 credit-hours of study.

The point is that a D. That being said, anyone outside of a hospital or academia who insists on being called "doctor" is imprudent at best.

Second point: A more important concern in Southern Baptist life is the puffery and obsession with titles that has led scores and scores of pastors to obtain diploma mill doctorates.

This is not just disingenuous, it is a cancer that is quickly eroding the integrity and moral foundations of the denomination. I personally know of one prominent SBC pastor who has a diploma mill doctorate, a State Baptist Convention President with the same dubious credentials and, here's the kicker, a trustee of NOBTS who got his doctorate in the mail.

Jesus taught us that the first will be last and the last will be first. I'll leave it to HIM to determine in which group all these fake doctors fit.

Also Third: Louis said, "A number of years ago a pastor friend of mine was commenting about a certain prominent Southern Baptist minister who formerly was a pastor, and then an administrator at a denominational agency , whom he knew fairly well.

Surely wondering why my last post was not posted a few months ago. The anonymous poster of Dec. I would add several points: First: The distinction between professional and academic degrees is a 20th century invention, and it was invented by people with PhDs.

Prior to that, all doctorates were professional. In fact, the earliest doctorates were awarded by universities like Oxford to professionals who excelled in their fields.

Outside of the U. It's ridiculous that tenured European professors often cannot have their titles recognized here if they have the "wrong doctorate.

No one seems to care when they go by "Dr. Ed" degrees routinely go by "Dr. That degree is absolutely positively equivalent to a D.

Fourth: I recently researched the technical difference between the Doctoral Thesis require by D. Min degrees vs. There is none. Ed degrees vary on which terminology they use.

There is a distinction between qualitative research vs. Min program, I see nothing unique about the D. Min program in that regard.

As others have pointed out, the letters should only be used on resumes and business cards. That said, I get sick of people 'dissing our degrees.

There is a substantial volume of incorrect information on this blog, way more than I have time to address. But given that I foolishly allowed myself to respond back in the s when this post originated, I guess I am trapped and will continue from time to time Some quick notes of fact regarding multiple posts: 1.

David Jeremiah does not have an earned doctorate, though he uses the title extensively in print and person. Sad, isn't it? A large gathering of wanna-bes in ministry refer to themselves as doctor.

That is sad, too. For a list, email me, and expect to be shocked. For physicians to refer to themselves as doctor is without merit, as the degree is at the undergraduate level, at best, and in reality, the technical school level as they receive training, not education.

Even the American Medical Association states such. Thus, an MD holder is not a doctor, unless they hold an earned PhD, as well, despite what your physician would have you believe.

Sorry if that offends, but it is the truth. That said, the DMin holder typically has a strong education, especially when compared to an MD, who has some training and very little education.

Doctor is an earned academic title, not a profession. Doctorates PhDs have never been awarded as professional degrees or for professional work, not even during the earliest of times.

I have reviewed the DMin projects completed by multiple students to the exent I can find them as they are not published bc they are not research , and as the holder of a BS, two master's degrees, one with a research thesis, and two doctorates, both with research dissertations, of course, I can emphatically state that these writings are not scientific research.

If however, you consider your DMin project a dissertation equivalent to a doctoral dissertation, i. I would love to review it.

Many posters here completely misuse the term research, similarly to one of the last few posters. If you had ever conducted research, you would know what it is and how to use the term.